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Here is a PM I received from one of my readers on an art forum. I'd likely get banned for replying to him with my real feelings, so instead I'm going to get it out here and probably ignore him to death on the forum. What a wanker.

Comments and conversation are welcome. If you can get through the miles of bullshit, that is.

Backstory: I posted a poll on 17 May, asking if anyone would be interested in a kiriban (which is where you take a screenshot of an artist's statistics - pageviews - at a certain number and get a free drawing/story as a prize). I said, "So I'm at ~56,000 views. If I were to have a kiriban at, say, 60,000, would anyone be interested?"

Lots of folks were interested (to my surprise - I've had two other kiribans and NO ONE went for it, how embarrassing), so I posted another journal setting my kiriban at 56,789. Two folks managed to nab that one. I posted another journal congratulating them and setting the new kiriban at 64,246. I also went into my userinfo on my mainpage and completely rewrote it, including mention of my kiriban (set at 64,246).

Let me specify here: journals and polls update to the same place on this forum. If you see my poll entitled "Kiriban?" you're going to see my journal called "Kiriban & Contest" and a journal called "Kiriban caught!"

So this guy - we'll call him Skull (because there's a coaster with a skull and crossbones on it next to my hand - thanks Ma-in-law for THAT tasteful piece of decoration) - PMs (privately messages) me with "I got your 60k kiriban!" I reply with "Aww, I'm sorry, it's at 64,246. Try again!"

And then, somehow, the shit hits the fan. After four or five exchanges, in which I get progressively more cold and clear (instead of friendly), I get this ENORMOUS rant of bullshit. I couldn't read it without getting pissed. Only managed to slog through it by reading it out loud to my dear partner, who laughed all the way through.

Here is the rant:

I guess if you didn't expect me to react in this way then it shows there are some things that we quite clearly do not know about one another. I am going to explain where I am coming from though because to me it is rather important that you understand why.

Fair enough. Explain away.

When I read...

"So I'm at ~56,000 views. If I had a kiriban set at 60,000, would you go for it?"

Please notice here that I said "if." IF. Not that I was setting it at 60,000. So in a court of law, I'm already off the hook (not that there was any hook anyway, it's a fucking kiriban on a fucking art forum on the internet).

I expect it to mean, that if there's enough interest, that you're going to set a kiriban at 60,000. Due to the reactions that you got I thought it was pretty obvious that people were interested. I thought you'd perhaps post a journal entry on this, but why would I need to go hunting for that? You'd already said 60,000 in the poll. Maybe this is just an extremely different way of how we do things, but if I created a poll the number used within the poll would reflect the real number I'd actually use for the kiriban.

Who said anything about hunting? If you saw the poll, you'll see the journals. PLURAL. They pop up in the same place on your account.

Why would I want to use two different numbers anyway? To confuse people? Or to mean the ones who participated in the poll, yet who don't read my journal entries, will get caught out? Obviously this isn't it, but that's exactly what happened.

The reason for choosing different numbers is that they're fun numbers. 60,000 is boring. My first kiriban was set at 56,789. My second is 64,246. See patterns? Fun!

I went out of my way specifically to try catching it because it sounded like fun for both you and myself, I am *hopeless* at doing that sort of thing and as it took a lot of effort on my part not to forget, you can imagine why I was pretty annoyed.

Oh noes, you put forth effort to not forget? You poor baby. That's like, seriously hard work there! /sarcasm

I'm curious if he has any idea how little effort it takes to remember someone's kiriban, compared to writing a kiriban prize. I've caught a few kiriban before, and what I do to help myself remember is to leave the person's stats open in a tab in firefox. Then every day, I check it. Durr. Not a whole lot of blood, sweat, or tears there, man.

It's like saying once I've collected 10,000 strawberries on my fruit-farm, I'm going to make jam and sell it for £3 a jar, would people be interested in this? I've got a strawberry counter on my farm website, but you'll have to buy the jam quick 'cause last time I tried this it all sold within a couple of days.

Lots of people say yes yes yes. You had recently moved to the area and really enjoy home made jam and as it would also be a good opportunity for you to get to know some more of the locals you make sure to turn up the day after the 10,000 mark is reached. The owner then proceeds to say, oh sorry that 10,000 was just an example, I actually made the jam at 9000.

Imagine for a moment how that would make you feel.

Like a dumbass for watching a counter instead of calling ahead to reserve a jar? And this isn't sales, this is art. Free art. Which I don't even owe you.

I don't give a crap about whether or not I won or lost. Maybe I missed 60,000 yet managed to grab 60,001, and not knowing if anyone had caught 60,000 I send it in anyway. It turns out that someone else had managed to grab 60k though, so you turn around and say, sorry someone else got 60,000. This I would not mind in a the least.

No, clearly you do give a crap. LOTS of crap. I'm reading through it right now. Christ it stinks!

What I am very annoyed about is the principle of the matter. I get extremely annoyed and irritated about things like this, people saying one thing then doing another, or ridiculous misunderstandings that should never have occurred in the first place. Why on earth would you put 60k in the poll and not actually mean 60k? In my mind that doesn't make any sense and makes me flamin' hot mad. It's like the competition for the Y!-Gal mascot, the deadline said like the 22nd of July, which technically means up until the 22nd of July 23:59, yet due to Jaytee's time-zone he ended up late by like a couple of hours and the mods rejected his entry... I was ready to throttle someone on Jaytee's behalf. As if it mattered if it was a couple of hours late, out of an entire month of entry time. If someone asked,' well why didn't be submit it earlier?' This in my mind is completely missing the point.

Okay, 'cept that I didn't actually SAY I'd give a kiriban at 60,000. I said "if." Then, I posted a kiriban. For the two who got it? I've written one kiriban prize and am working on putting HTML into the other. Not welching on it. FOR THE TWO PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY GOT IT.

I don't have a huge number of memories of my child hood, not that it was bad, rather all of it was good so nothing really stands out. But what does stand out are injustices of this kind, and right back to when I was like 8 years old. This is the kind of thing that enrages me like no other.

Agreed, you are acting exactly like an 8-year-old right now. A spoiled rotten 8-year-old, no less.

You may say, well it's your fault for not looking at my journals or 'about me', but why should I? I've read your about me before and I don't tend to read journal entries, least of all when I'm busy, yet I do make sure to check your submissions page for updates and every time I do that I see the top of your about me thing. I figured something as important kiriban (and lets face it it's only important to those who want to catch it, so only your followers would bother) would be posted at the top so it wouldn't be missed.

I really suspect that if you look up "Entitlement Complex," this is what comes up as the definition. I don't give a rat's fart if you read my journals or my "about me." If you choose not to, you'll not get my kiriban. I don't lose anything from that. You do, if you want my kiriban. If you saw the polls, you see the journals. I labeled them with "kiriban" in the title so that it would be clear for those who were interested (the way this forum works, you see the journal/poll title in bold, then the first two or three lines of content from the journal/poll so you can decide if you want to delete it from your messages or click "read more").

Also, the whole busyness thing ... do you think you're the only person who has shit going on? You don't know anything about me or what I'm up to. Maybe I'm super busy too (which I am). Despite that, I posted two journals about my kiriban to clarify things. YOU are the one who failed to read them, even though you read, voted, and commented on the poll. If you're so busy, why'd you do that?

(Oh and by the way? My poll choices were "Yes," "No," and "Cheese." He specified that he'd voted for cheese.)

All that aside, in my mind it might be entirely your fault, but I do not blame you. I value our friendship far more then to harbour any feelings of anger towards you. It was however important for me to explain to you why I got annoyed especially because I realise it was perhaps a little unexpected. We all have our pet peeves and you happened to successfully bash hard against one (of the very few I might add) of mine and with a 10 ton hammer no less.

[Emphasis added]

1. It's actually not my fault at all.

2. What friendship? You're too busy to read my journals. That's really the only way you can get to know me. Friendship is about knowing stuff about each other and being there for each other. Which you aren't. So you're really not my friend. [Edit] Also, just checked - we're not even "friends" on the website. He likes my writing so much, but he doesn't watch me to get updates? Weirdo.

3. I didn't bash anything. You got embarrassed by fucking up and overreacted.

I hope this doesn't end up affecting our relationship because it would seem stupid to let it, after-all disagreements and arguments are as much of a part of being human as are the fun times. I guess I'll just have to keep remembering to watch that damned counter for another four thousand, although it feels like I've already been watching the damned thing for months (which it has been, almost 3 months since the poll) for it to reach just 60k [here he had an angry-face emoticon that is chumming up my html so I've deleted it]

Thank you for the reminder that it took me 3 months to get 4k views, that's precisely what my ego DIDN'T need today.

And no, it hasn't affected our relationship. I knew long ago that you were a twat. I just hadn't realized the full breadth and scope of your twattiness (is that even a word).


"Also, kiribans are a gift. They really shouldn't bring with them such an entitlement complex." [He's quoting me here from one of my less warm-and-fuzzy PMs.]

I think it might be worth seeing this from a slightly different perspective, a gift it might very well be, but it could also be seen as a particularly lucrative prize to those who cannot really afford commissions.

Nope, it's a gift. When you're categorizing your submissions to this art forum, you can click on a tag for kiribans. It's that one that looks like this: "Kiriban/Gift Art." One tag. For both.

It is interesting you should also mention that you see a kiriban as a gift. I had never viewed a kiriban as a gift, although I can now see why you do. Previously I had viewed a kiriban as a thing to create interest about an artist, encouraging people to view their stuff, and if you view their stuff enough and manage to catch a kiriban You'll get a free commission! Maybe this isn't why you give a kiriban, but it's how I've interpreted it in the past.

Oh, so is that why it took me three months to get 4k views? /sarcasm

Naturally if I won your kiriban it would be done with the utmost of respect and there would certainly not be any pressure put on you, especially if you were encountering any difficulties. Quite the opposite in fact I'd enjoy trying to help you overcome them and discussing, if you wished, everything in detail (this is one of the reasons why I had wanted to catch it because it seemed like it could be a lot of fun for both of us). I have in the past however been offered something of this nature and the artist in question didn't come through, perhaps I should have put some pressure on them when they didn't produce anything or stopped contacting me...however as it was free I didn't want to start demanding anything.

[Emphasis added]

There's nothing respectful about this. Nothing at all. Well, okay, he's not using cursewords or calling me names, but that's about it. This is COMPLETELY disrespectful. It's rude. It's stupid. It's unfounded. He didn't get my kiriban. He's insisting that he's owed it. Then he says he's not demanding anything.

It's people like this who make me want to bash my head against a wall repeatedly. I just ... I don't even know how to respond.

Probably just "tl;dr" (too long; didn't read) would suffice. 'Cept that I did read it. Oh well.


[Edit]: Holy shit, he's wanking me out on this post on my Blogger. Some people just don't know when to quit!
Dude, who IS this guy? I kinda want to go poke him myself now! XD

Y!Gal. Gotta love it, doncha?

Oh jesus no. And the best part? HE ISN'T LETTING IT DROP. I told him that he can be as long-winded about the issue as he wants, but he's wrong and needs to let it go or I'll report him. Didn't do a damn bit of good.

Ahh, y!gal. You give me nervous tics. XD
The idiocy is strong in this one...he's like every other furry I've dealt with.

I love how the kiriban not being 60k is a great injustice. He can't get his free porn, THIS IS A GREAT INJUSTICE. Talk about overreacting. >.>

Also, people who I've just met on the internet and automatically assume that they're friends with me because we exchanged a few pms/comments creeps me out. It's like...No man, I'm not your bro, we've only spoken like, twice. Go back to your basement cave...
Yeah, he's completely overreacting, and the friend thing weirds me out, too. We've never chatted, we've barely spoken over PM, he's not my friend on any site ... and yet we're "friends"? What the hell, man?

He's currently wanking on my blogger. You're invited to read further idiocy here.

*Breaks out the popcorn*, oh this is entertaining.
It's kind of turned scary, in my opinion. He's really just not listening to reason, and he's starting to attack those who read my blog and comment in my defense. I'm going to just ignore him - better than prolonging this. *sigh*

Why are people idiots? *whine*
Because people who watch an author would never agree with them or have similar ways of thinking. :T This guy is so smart.
But yeah, ignoring him is probably the best way to let it die down. If he's persistent you can probably block him or something...Oh how I wish I could just IP ban certain people from interacting with me. X3

Because it's the internet, intelligence levels drop 40% as a rule of thumb.
I think the intelligence drops and the crazy increases when the internet is involved. I'm going to block him and take a short hiatus from y!gal, just to clear my head. This whole thing has just gone way, way out of control.

*sighs* Why can't people just be rational?
Oh, my god. Wow.

Okay, first off, what is it with entitlement this week? Every day I have to gag myself just to keep from going off on somebody. It is EVERYWHERE lately.

But this guy, holy crap! Seriously? I don't have the words to express my disbelief at his attitude. Like you should be falling over yourself happy that he was interested (dude, *lots* of people are interested, or didn't you read the poll results? o_o), and like he's baffled you won't give it to him anyway, even though he didn't catch the right number. Spoiled 8 year old is right.

That last paragraph though, that gives me the biggest red flags. This dude is the dude that people won't even let commission them. This dude is the dude that sends his rough sketch back to the commissioner 10 times, because the hundred details he wants are not exactly precisely correct. This is the dude that throws a fit when an artist only allows two revisions. I bet you anything he was going to ask for some story that has nothing to do with anything you ever write about, that combines lots of rare kinks, that would take lots of research, and he'd nitpick it the whole way through. He wants to do this. "Everything in detail," he said. He wants to ~work with you.~ And he wants to do this for free.


You really dodged a bullet with this guy. I would really love to know who it is, so I can put him on my no-commission list, actually, but if you'd rather not share his name, I'd understand XD

I'm sorry you had to go through that. What a pain, to have such a kerfluffle over something so cut-and-dry. I caught your kiriban! No, sorry, try again! The end. What an unnecessary headache.

Ha, more like entitlement year or something. I don't get it, not at all. Whatever happened to manners?

I'm just as pleased that he was interested as I am that anyone's interested, as you said - and where lots of folks said they were shooting for my kiriban, only two folks got it. Does that mean I owe free fiction to everyone who was interested? No! I don't see anyone else whining about it, though.

I'd not thought of those red flags in the last paragraph, but you're absolutely right. He sent me a LONG detailed request when he thought he'd gotten my kiriban, without even waiting for "Congratulations! What would you like?" or whatever. I'd say it's not okay to nitpick a freebie like a kiriban gift, but you just know he'd do it. And then be all whine-whine-whine if (when) I ignored him.

I thought I'd dodged some kind of bullet, but there seems to be shrapnel - he's wanking me out over this on my blog. The headache grows! =_=;

(Speaking of kiriban - yours is done save for the HTML, but I don't like how it turned out so I'm going to write another as well. After I work on my thesis some. Right. *cough*)
\o/!!! about the kiriban. I am excited! :D

omg, they need to back the fuck off. I am getting uncomfortable reading their replies now, because I'm becoming more and more sure they're mentally ill :/ That sense of entitlement/nitpicking/overblown sense of justice/injustice is *very* familiar to me, and I almost don't want to say anything else negative about them.


(*I need to clarify that I'm not calling them mentally ill as an insult. They may or may not be, I'm just saying, even if they *are*--) Being mentally ill doesn't exempt you from being a human, and treating others with respect whenever possible. And, they're totally wrong. Asking a question is only a question, not a guarantee. Asking a question to gauge interest is simply that. And I don't buy their "I only want you to admit you're wrong" act. I believe they (really really really REALLY) want you to admit you are wroooong and they are right, but I also believe they really wanted some free porn, and are upset that they don't get what they want.

I also think I know who it is on y!gal now *is a detective*

I wish I could say just ignore it XD But I know how impossible that is. Be a duck's back, and let them be the water! Pee in the water, then swim away. *nods*

Edited at 2011-08-17 11:28 pm (UTC)
Yeah, it's crossed a line now. I don't think this person is normal, be it mental illness or some kind of mental retardation or sociopathy that makes it difficult for him to function in the way we expect people to function in a community setting. I'd feel sorry for him (I mean, regardless of right or wrong, he's clearly upset by this) but then I just feel weirded out. Completely.

Duck's back it is! Time to move on from this.
Unbelievable. That's not just entitlement. That's pathology. I read the extra stuff on your Blogger too, and maaaan. I'd call him a dick, but that would be giving dicks a bad name.
Yeah, it's crossed over from "holy shit this guy is a wanker" to "uh, wow, this is kind of scary," in my opinion. He left me another three-part novel-length comment on my blog, too. I mean, he didn't have time to watch for a stupid kiriban, but he's got time for this?

Time to cut off contact on this one, for sure.
*hug* I know this may sound weird, especially since he is apparently taking the argument/conversation to you via your blog, but... is it at all possible for you to take the upper high road, state that you will probably not agree about this topic and then just stop responding to him? This kind of drama feeds on itself, I've seen it many, many times. And I don't want you to always associate your kiriban experience with this one bad part. Sometimes, it's harder to let go than to keep responding, but - is it a possibility here? Lock your blog post for comments so he can't keep harassing you, too.

Because he followed you to a separate blog, read your entire entry (with your blunt, unabridged thoughts and reactions freely laid out in black and white) and still did not understand your point of view; this leads me to think that it should probably be something that the two of you agree to disagree on.

*hug again* Hopefully it all works out without too much drama happening.
It's starting to look like that's the only option. He's clearly never going to see things the way I do, I'm never going to see things the way he does, and it's not like we're really moving forward with the conversation - he's saying the same stuff he said the first time, and I'm replying to it with the same stuff I've already said. I'll have to admit that I kind of enjoyed posting this publicly for others to read, insomuch that it's gratifying to hear others agree with me on the issue, but one can only be "right" so long before the whole thing just feels tiresome.

Thank you for being the voice of reason, Lil. I, uh, do need that pretty desperately sometimes. *laughs* ♥